In search of heaven on earth .................

In search of heaven on earth …

Most of us have heard about heaven within and around us … but where exactly it is located in us and around has been a difficult task to say the least…

The discussion on trying to locate heaven on earth, heaven in our own backyard and search for heaven within our own daily life between Jenifer Ferris, Roto Chobin, Jarjum Ete and myself was an off shoot of my wall post …

“ Time to change kahawat 'Jiski lathi uski bhains .. To .. 'Jiski dimag uski duniya.' God endowed everyone of us with some special mental faculty. Our aim should be to discover our speciality and build our own special universe based on it. So Sulu muses.”

On this, our discussion started with Jeniffer’s comment as given below :

Jennifer Ferris : “I agree absolutely.”

Jennifer Ferris: “ Do you have any thoughts on how to discover? “

Jennifer Ferris: “ To me, that is the ultimate "heaven" concept, as it is heaven on earth, while we are alive to enjoy it as I believe we are meant to.”

Dani Sulu: “This is what sulu tells himself. I am not others. I am what God wanted me to be. And then, I ask GOD what is it that he wants out of me for the moment, for the day and for the life.”

.Dani Sulu: “Yes, I agree with you. I can build my own heaven and hell here on earth ...itself. God gave us this life and wanted us to build as per our own liking and our own ability. So Sulu thinks.”

Jennifer Ferris: “ I agree. But how does one build one's heaven if one lives moment to moment, as I would also agree is correct? There is no future thought there. So there must not be any concept of one's own personal heaven, either? Continue talking abou...t this with me, you're one of my brilliant friends and this is something I particularly struggle with. I feel as though my spiritual beliefs conflict with day to day reality and struggles. Want to integrate them. Agree on heaven on earth as the right view. But how to seek when seeking is not the spiritually correct thing to do, as seeking implies not only future, but preconditioned thinking, as well? ”

Dani Sulu: “ Ok. Let us set certain premise before we go farther. What you and me are saying are our own personal views and for our own personal consumption. If we pick up threads from each other, then it is on our own volition. … AND I BELIEVE IF THERE IS... NO FRICTION THERE NEITHER IS ANY SHINE. I expect to have some opposite views. ”

Dani Sulu: “ Present cannot be dissociated from future, nor future fly off on its own.”

Dani Sulu: “ Every moment we live is a foundation brick, building my past life, present life and future life ... my holistic self.

Jennifer Ferris: “ Really? I present my views, and if people don't like them they can go to hell :) LOL! I feel no friction toward your views so far. If I ever do I will certainly let you know if it does not offend you to hear them (as it does some people).”

Dani Sulu: “ My present should be enjoyed and lived to its full, without compromising with my future. Nor thought of our future, subsume our present. So Sulu thinks.”

Jennifer Ferris : “ I'm like you, I welcome argument and differing viewpoints. Gives me the opportunity to expand my own point of view.
I would not say that present and future are dissociated in any way. I would say that we do not know what future may hold,... so any attempt to bring toward ourselves that which we feel we desire may be misguided.”

.Dani Sulu: “ No, I like friction and if there is no friction, I am almost sure there is some problem, some witholding. With something not forthcoming and hidden, there cant be any enlightened discussion. Friction, questioning attitude and inquisitivenes...s makes us move ahead spiritually, intellectually, scientifically, and materially. It is the way to harmony with self and the nature. So Sulu thinks.”


Dani Sulu : “Ok. Let me put it this way.”

Jennifer Ferris: “What if you happen to come across someone whose views are remarkably similar to your own? I guess we could argue for the fun of it :)”

Dani Sulu: “Yes. But my nature will make me verify nature of our harmonious discussion. The purpose of nature is to let us strive towards harmony. But human as we are, we just think we are in harmony, without being in harmony.”

Dani Sulu: “ Ok. We can come back to our topic. I keep jumping off it.”

Dani Sulu: “ One's day today life need not conflict with our spiritual belief. What I do now is what my life is. It presents me my present life, it affects my future life and it is a process of accepting my past. We may not realise it, but whatever we do is our spiritual pursuit in one way or the other. So Sulu thinks.”

Dani Sulu: “ It sounds too beaten a road .... but it is true that the moments we live are strings of beads that makes the necklace of our life. What type of beads we pick up is entirely our own choice. So Sulu thinks. ”

Jennifer Ferris: “ ….. ‎"We may not realise it, but whatever we do is our spiritual pursuit in one way or the other" - this I wholeheartedly agree with. But my day to day reality is needing to support three children, mostly on my own. Feed, clothe and shelter. ... I do not feel that real estate is my spiritual calling, however it fills a need at this time. What is my calling? No idea. Ought I think about it, wonder about it, muse about it to myself? Or ought I live moment to moment, day to day, year to year in something which I spiritually know is not where I was intended to be and simply be happy with each moment and trust that that which I was intended for will come to me without thought, without seeking?”

Dani Sulu: “ I cant agree the less with you. To engage our self in trying to bring up our children in the best possible manner is our best spiritual pursuit for the moment. It is following God's instruction for us.
Each of us taking care of our selves and our family, each of us being responsible to our own physical and emotional needs without compromising with others life is the highest level of spiritual life.”

Dani Sulu: “I believe our spiritual liberation is not in any monastery, or church, or temple or in any form of worldly renounciation. ...Our spiritual liberation is is in taking the daily needs of our body, our emotion, our spiritual necessity, needs of our family and society head on. Su Sulu muses.”


Dani Sulu: “ We are made of this world. We are made for this world. Having lived this world as per God's design, our Good lord will take care of us in the next world.
It is for us mortals to question and live this world, and not be bothered about the wo...rld we do not know i.e next world.”

Jennifer Ferris: “ So you are saying that the existence I have at this moment is heaven? Because it sure doesn't feel like it. If I truly loved my work, I could agree. But this world I am in, although pretty much free of suffering, is not ideal or fulfilli...ng in ways that heaven would be. Heaven would include fulfilling work, if work were necessary or desired. Engaging myself in bringing up the children in the best possible manner is my number one priority. But it comes at the sacrifice of doing something I would truly love to do and that would be fulfilling to me.”


Jarjum Ete: “ hmmmm .... Hi, Jennifer !!! You both have something quite deep going on here......very interesting, indeed.”

Jarjum Ete: “Sulu, without diluting your discussions, let me start at the beginning....
What sort of special universe ? ............as part of a larger galaxy ?.........or a universe unto itself ?”

Dani Sulu: “ Jarjum mem... When I say building special universe of our own liking, I mean to say that each of us can build a world of our own .. without giving in to despair because of our seemingly disadvantageous position. .. e.g A child may not have sporty cars ... like merce … etc. But when he plays with pebbles and stones immitating it as race cars ... he is as happy and excited as any race driver in a grand prix.

...When we were growing up, we used to tie the plastics lying around with ropes and played football in the village streets .. it was as enjoyable and exciting as any super soccer league.”


Jennifer Ferris: “ Dani, I'm not in the least bit worried about the next world. Could not care less. Hello Jarjum :). Dani, I believe fully in heaven on earth. Why do I not yet have it, is what I want to know. Ought I seek it? Makes no sense. Ought I wait? Is there any other option? I am a little impatient by nature, so that may be part of my difficulty.”

Dani Sulu: “ ‎ Jeniff.... Heaven isnt someplace where we cant reach. It is within our reach. We just need to dig a little deeper. We may perhaps start listing what are the things we really want to do, and what are things that are limiting us. Sitting infront of mirror, looking into my own eyes and also into my own soul... asking myself what is it that I want to do ... will reveal me the truth of what I really care for..”

Jarjum Ete: “ ‎...........patience, someone said, is actually the indecisiveness of the fools, misunderstood as a virtue..... so, on that count, Jennifer, impatience is the propelling virtue.... !!!! lolssssssss....”

Jennifer Ferris : “ Jarjum I tend to agree. I feel that if God did not wish me to be impatient at the age of 40, I would not be! That is another of my struggles which coincides with my concern that perhaps I ought keep my mouth shut on occasion :) Both things I probably should totally accept and think nothing further about. I am a thinker though, and always desire to perfect things, and my own behaviour is not exempt :)”

Jarjum Ete: “ Let me try it another way.....with a focus on a value system (which determines the quality of life's building blocks), living each moment and each day, without losing sight of life's goal (of building a world of one's choice, which you both seem to call as the heaven of your choice ???) .... using the tools of sincerity, love, empathy, peace, curiosity.... you may have it.....”

Dani Sulu: ‎" ….. … “Dani, I believe fully in heaven on earth. Why do I not yet have it, is what I want to know. Ought I seek it? Makes no sense. Ought I wait? Is there any other option? I am a little impatient by nature, so that may be part of my difficulty...." Let me comment on this …
No seeker shall find the heaven on earth. Peek into yourself you will find it. It is here and in this moment. Even the time we are inter- acting is a part of heavenly process on earth if we realize it. I will not change eternity of heavenly bliss for the moments of sweetness and sourness that my life provides me with. I like to ride the twists and turns, ups and downs of life, and my nirvana is when I am able to align my life as per the shape of the life. Family is not restricting. Those who have realised herself, have achieved what they wanted inspite of all the seemingly time dragging responsibilities.”

Jennifer Ferris: “ Oh, I agree, moment to moment life is the same heaven I refer to. Nothing everlasting, no promises, no rewards etc. Just moment to moment happiness and fulfillment. I do believe that meaningful work is a part of that heaven, but perhaps I am wrong.”

Jennifer Ferris: “ Perhaps I only need to shift focus. It does seem more ideal, though, and I am an ideal thinker, for meaningful work to be a part of the picture.”

Dani Sulu: ‎ “ Jarjum Mem, I like your take. Jeniffer... It is in nature to seek perfection, but it is not in nature that we all be perfect. Nor do we need to fight what is natural to us. If there are moments of impatient ... so be it. I am sure there ...are moments where we all show patience as well. So Sulu muses.

Dani Sulu: “ Living with our wrong and our right is our life. No great men or women were without these attributes. So Sulu muses.

Jennifer Ferris: “ Jarjum, I would say it's attainable, but that calls into question future thought and future desire, which personally I do not spiritually embrace. Thus my conflict between the now and the heaven I perceive.”
Roto Chobin: “ by "special universe", i infer an ideal society. Since everyone implore for ideal world while making others life hell, so I guess God gave us a bit too much - brains, of course.”

Dani Sulu: “ Having a safety net is always safer. But when we look for safety net in every endeavour, it comes with something dark lurking beyond our every vision. If we are looking at our future see it straight. If we sit back and think and doubt about our future plan .. and also doubt that our desire in future might change, we have already limited ourselves. Having set our goals, what comes in future needs to be met with in future not in the present.”

Jarjum Ete : “ ‎.....the heaven you desire to attain is the ultimate....right ? if yes, that also means that your thoughts encompass the future ... right ? if yes, I don't see any conflict......”

Jennifer Ferris: “ I don't really see how you can live in each moment fully but have future desire and future thought at the same time. If thoughts are real (as I believe them to be), then wishing for something which you do not have is a projection in a direction which is quite possibly not your intended spiritual growth route. Seems unwise.”

Dani Sulu: “ Heaven is desired. May be in future. Does it have a meeting point.”

Jennifer Ferris: “ So, Dani, you feel that future goals are important? ”

Dani Sulu: Jenn

Jennifer Ferris: “Heaven could be (and I think should be) now.”

Dani Sulu: “ yes”

Dani Sulu: “ I am coming to it.....”

Dani Sulu: “ Future goal is very important ....”

Jennifer Ferris: “ Jarjum, my thoughts don't encompass the future. I am not a planner, never have been. I see my reality, today, and see how it could be better. My struggle is a spiritual one, because I do feel that "better" will come to me, when the time is ripe. I want to make it happen. I am impatient. One could call it a lack of faith. But when there are children to feed it becomes more urgent.”

Roto Chobin: “ The existence of Heaven or Hell is not proven. As a common man, I am experiencing the best of the both world right here in Earth. I couldn't ask for more.
Dani Sulu: Our life is not tied to the moment. Our moment is lived as a stepping stone to our future hopes. The joy of the moment is joy of doing the job in the hand well, having placed another brick firm and perfect in its place even as we build on our future hope.”

Jarjum Ete: “ Well, very frankly, am not at all religious nor anywhere near spirituality..... so, guess, this subject is beyond my grasp......lolss..... but, in a very common sensical way, I see no conflict in living the heaven on earth each day (if one ...is adhered to some tenets and values....like....love, humanity, peace )... and let it grow on life..........block by block, every day, every moment..... at the end of the day... you have the heaven of your choice...here and now.... no waiting.... no planning.......no manipulations...... just living it..... and I find a single minded pursuit of spiritualism per se is also not really necessary if one has imbibed the basic values of love and peace... and integrated the same into one's day to day life and actions..

Dani Sulu: “ ‎@Jeniff "I am not a planner, never have been. I see my reality, today, and see how it could be better. My struggle is a spiritual one, because I do feel that "better" will come to me, when the time is ripe. I want to make it happen. I am... impatient. One could call it a lack of faith. But when there are children to feed it becomes more urgent."

I love the way you place life as practical as it is lived. But the heaven, to me will not come like a present on Christmas day on platter. Nor will any nirvana come in a flash of a light where we will continue to stay. It doesnt appear wise to be looking for a plateau where our journey will end or a meadow where everything is happiness and blissfull only. ”

.Jarjum Ete: “ And, Sulu, to go back to your initial post........ jiski dimaag uski duniyaa will perhaps have two connotations.... one, you create a make-believe world of your own....live in a mental cocoon.... two, use your intellect to such an extent that you run the world in your own way........ what did you have in mind ??? lolsss....”

Jennifer Ferris: “ I embrace love, humanity and peace. But still, there are three children to support whom cannot live on those words :) I must work. My question, my struggle, is work related, not life related. I want work, also, to fit in with my already... realized heaven of having 3 beautiful healthy children who are happy and do not suffer. Going back to Dani's original thought of building our own special universe, my question remains the same. I certainly can take advantage of opportunities which present themselves, and would. But searching, seeking, goes against that which I feel to be true and right. All we need is here, now. In my opinion. Maybe Dani is right though, maybe goals are key. I appreciate the new perspective.”


Dani Sulu: “ I meant, using one's intellect and brain, one can carve out a universe of his own from the present life, from wherever he is and from which ever position he is.
A right thinking man knows that a deprived men or society by greater might or mind of the present will rise again and take to vengeance much more than the crime perperated on them. So, he will use his mind to contribute and derive the riches of life.
Thinking men also knows that no man can live in isolation. So he will be open to the world and its idiosyncries, and take it along his stride.”

Jennifer Ferris: “ I'm not looking for a plateau or an end to a journey. I'm looking to integrate my worklife into my spiritual life. Has not happened as of yet. My dilemma is wether or not to seek that happening or simply stay in each moment and see what comes about. That is all.”

Roto Chobin: “ …By the way, why did God plant "the tree of knowledge" in the middle of garden, knowing (since he is omnipotent/ omnipresent) that we humans are going to eat it, which will make us brainier.”

Dani Sulu: “ Jeniff ..... That is a difficult question. Although I believe in aligning myself to the contours of life even while having a greater goal of life.”

Jennifer Ferris: “ Jarjum, I don't feel there is anything at all wrong with creating (or manipulating) one's own environment for happiness (heaven). In fact I think that's extremely wise.”

Dani Sulu: “ Deriving spiritual enlightening is somewhat like running a kite .. One needs to run the kite against the wind, but very often let the kite fly along the wind. It is accomodating draughts of wind that makes kite fly higher. One cant pull kites higher just by sheer force alone. So Sulu muses.”

Dani Sulu: “ Yes it is wise. You need to create your own world without compromising with others life. This is the wisdom.”

Dani Sulu: “ It was God's explicit desire that we have our brains and use it. I have a feeling he wanted us to test him.”

Roto Chobin: “ Knowing that it'll make us a barbaric. It is like ignoring your own child committing a wrongdoing.”

Jennifer Ferris: “ Roto, that whole apple thing is total bs. Don't even think about it lol.”

Jennifer Ferris: “ Dani, I don't get the feeling that god wants to be challenged, but do get the feeling that god is probably pleased when we do so. My question remains unanswered :( To purposefully create or to not purposefully create, that is the question.... Dani I gather your vote is yes. I'm unconvinced. Look at all of the major spiritual teachings... do any of them teach having goals or ultimate outcomes? Not that I know of. They teach acceptance, observation and being present in the now, appreciation for the now, and if anything NOT planning for the future! Lol!. ”

Dani Sulu: “ Can I have your question in three sentnence. It might help me clear my own cobwebs.”

Roto Chobin: ‎” Jennifer, I am sorry if I hurt your sentiment. I didn't intend to. Y'know, curiosity.”

Jennifer Ferris: “ Oh, Roto, you didn't hurt me in the slightest sweetheart, don't be alarmed :) I had similar questions myself about 15 years ago.”

Dani Sulu: ‎” Jeniff, Yes All the spiritual teachings teach ... having goals or ultimate goals. Some for nirvana, some to head to heaven, some set their goal as ultimate liberation from life's difficulties. But all these have a major flaw. And that is … preaching resistance against what is natural to human.”

Dani Sulu: Above is for @Jeniff

Dani Sulu: “ From each spiritual teaching pick up what is practrical to me, and discard the rest. To be a prisoner of any set pattern of preaching will suffocate the very spirit which set out to search its own goal.”

Jennifer Ferris: “ I've seen your earlier post regarding teachings which are anti-sexuality, etc. and am totally with you. We have been created (assuming we were intentionally created) with physical bodies which respond to pleasure. Even if we were not intentionally created, that remains a fact :) Enjoy it responsibly, in my opinion.... do not use it to harm others or in ways that will harm others. Aside from that, rock on. My heart does not embrace any teaching which is future reward oriented. I believe those to be false teachings.”

Dani Sulu: “ What do you mean by future reward .... future within our own life time or beyond our life?”

Jennifer Ferris: “ Regarding your last comment "pick up what is practical" etc.... that's completely what I do. I have not yet found any spiritual teaching which said "plan for the future" that I was able to feel was true. But maybe having thoughtful goals has it's place. Not sure. “

Dani Sulu: ‎”Jeniff, to the point of being curt may I ask you what do you mean by future ... within or beyond ... present life?”

Dani Sulu: “ I will rather say I do not agree with them( your preachers) than saying what they say is false.

Jennifer Ferris: “ Future being either within our lifetime or afterward. I do not believe in doing anything with hopes of future reward. Makes it a false action. One should only do things with pure heart, unobstructed or influenced by what the final result may be. In my opinion.”

Dani Sulu: “ I think future is very important and we should not keep it out of our sight. I mean future within our life time. I have four kids and am expecting fifth. Now I want them to have good food so that they have good health now and in times to come, I love them in a healthy way so that they grow up to have a healthy emotion, I care for them not only because they are my children, but more so because they learn to care for others. Their future is inexplicable part of my present activity. The important thing is not to let the present subsume my future, nor worry for future subsume my present.”

Jennifer Ferris: “ You may take the route of saying you do not agree with a teaching... I am bold and if I feel something to be false I will state that. There are some things which simply are false. For example, the belief of most Christians that I will for...ever burn in fiery hell as a result of not embracing their savior... a topic which came up on my page recently. I could be sweet and nice and say "I don't agree" but the fact of the matter is that I think they're all f*ing crazy to believe in such a horrible thing. Which was what I said, on my public page.”

Dani Sulu: “ Instead of using the word purity of heart, Sulu might use purity of dedication.... or else it opens up to many inter pretation.”

Dani Sulu: “ I like it. I like when sparks fly in discussions and thoughts cross swords.”

Dani Sulu: “ My grammer and spelling keeps slipping off my hand. Please bear with it.”

Jennifer Ferris: “ I think your stance of balance is a good one, and one which will benefit me. Perhaps there is no black or white, no right or wrong, no this or that. Perhaps it is about balance.”

Roto Chobin: “ Future is bleak as i gather. Past was extremely wild and rough. Present is what we should all concentrate to as Present itself is a big "PRESENT". ”

Dani Sulu: “ Not in balance itself, for none can have perfect balance. The pursuit of it ... the joy is in journey .. in adjusting to new challenges ...”

Dani Sulu: “ Anu Chobin... What we live is not for the moment, for it shall pass away even as we blink... it is for the life after blink. Enjoying the present as building block without compromising with your fututre is the life. So Sulu thinks.”

Jennifer Ferris: “ Dani, hm.... that kind of lends itself to my live in the present moment fully beliefs. Being flexible, taking what comes and making the best of it. “

Roto Chobin: ‎” Sulu,I agree with you. We are here for some purpose. However, take the canal for example, we need to see that it is not clogged or else the water will not pass through and then stagnant, which implies that we have to make way for future.”

Dani Sulu: “ Setting new goals, may be as innocuous as organising next birthday of my kid, and then adapting to small challenges that come by as a result of my birth day plan is the healthy ingredients of a healthy spiritual life. Not in renunciation of the world and hiding away in some hermitage in mountain.”

Dani Sulu: “ But present should not limit our future. A healthy adjustment is needed.”

Roto Chobin: “ Adaptation is another name of human being. In everyday's life, we are asked to make an adjustment without looking at the current problem and solving it. In the long run, we face a greater predicament. Hence, in my opinion, Present do limit our future and has to.”

Jennifer Ferris: “ In my view, it's impossible for present to limit future. My question is more of whether or not to attempt to perceive future at all beyond whether or not what we personally are doing is helpful or harmful in general or specific.”

Dani Sulu: “ Present will limit our future, if we do not live with our eyes open and mental faculty functioning. In other words, If we live a conscious and conscientious present, it will be a bridge to our future life...”

Dani Sulu: “ Future needs to be percieved and kept in perspective way ... but not in a childish way of expecting miraculous results like ... opening of heaven's door suddenly just because you have closed your eye s and prayed for it.”

Jennifer Ferris: “ Makes sense, Dani. I'm off to bed :) “

Dani Sulu: “ Gud nite..”

Jennifer Ferris: “ Yeah, I don't hold any belief in prayer at all.”

Jennifer Ferris: “ Good night, and thanks for your thoughts, I appreciate them very much :)”

Roto Chobin: “ It was nice to be in all your midst. Great chatting with you all.”

Dani Sulu: “Yes. I enjoyed each and every point you all made.”

Jennifer Ferris: “ You too, Roto... hope you sleep well :)”

Dani Sulu: “ Its morning here, Jenny.”

Roto Chobin: ‎”jennifer, It's 11a.m. in Ziro, Arunachal, India.”

Dani Sulu: “ Pray, for prayers may not be answered by God, but it certainly helps in bringing out the best in us, as they say.”

Jennifer Ferris: “ I was kind of wondering if you had slept at all this evening lol! i apologize if I've kept you up :) Almost 1 am here :)”

Roto Chobin: “ bye everyone for now.”

Jennifer Ferris: “ To me, prayer equates to thought and hope (which is generally a selfish wish or desire). However: though and hope can be powerfully good things :)”

Dani Sulu: “ To be selfish is glorious and natural, to be self sacrificing is painfull. Each needs to help themselves and ask for help when we cant handle ourselves.To be selfish is as natural as being selfless. Unless you are not asking other's wife or husband in your prayer, and what you are asking is from your life and God alone, enjoy being selfish in your prayer.”

Jarjum Ete: “ Oh, I see a very intense interaction here this morning..........A sunday morning spent on worthy thoughts.........though I really don't see why we have to keep scratching our brains when we know in our hearts and minds what our souls deserve and need........ lolsssssssssssss..........Good day, Sulu and Chobin !!! Good night, Jennifer !!!!!”

Jennifer Ferris: “ Dani, agree entirely on selfishness as long as it doesn't mean purposely hurting others for the sake of hurting. Jarjum, I think it's kind of a personality thing. It's fun to bounce ideas off of others and often leads to gaining a new perspective that is often helpful. And who knows, maybe someone will read the conversation and get something out of it, themselves. Discussing can have many benefits :) I do like your impulse to simply go with the heart and leave it at that, though :)”


This was an impromptu chat trying to locate the heaven that is lying around us undiscovered. Some spellings and some grammar have been edited.